Silverbird

[plamenski]

Listen to the wise old man!

[AlphaDesigner]

I see. Now technology is evil. Please!

This old "computers are dangerous" talk is so outdated. When my dad went to Africa in 1990, we spent 3 years completely apart with an occasional letter arriving every 3 months. Sometimes not arriving at all. One passed through Cambodia before it reached Bulgaria. Today few people understand the horror of not being able to connect with your loved ones for more than a week. Thanks to computers and mobile phones.

Technology is not evil. People are evil.

[plamenski]

Now technology is evil.

He didn't say that. He said we get obsessed with it and that we spent less time in touch with nature.
He said other things too, like why Hollywood produces at least one film per year about holocaust
Any comments on the other things he speaks of?

[boby]

its all a question of balance
or submission
a man can submit himself to a machine
or submit the machine

[AlphaDesigner]

He said we get obsessed with it and that we spent less time in touch with nature.
He said other things too, like why Hollywood produces at least one film per year about holocaust
Any comments on the other things he speaks of?

Obsession is part of human nature (for example you are obsessed with the economy). If we don't get obsessed with computers, we get obsessed with other things. Car, diamonds, rites, traditions (!!!)... None of them are evil by default but like Boby said it's all about submission and balance.

I have a lot to say about nature though - something many people won't agree with. One of the first truly preposterous crimes against nature was the introduction of Christianity. There are really not many religions in which the natural is presented in such a negative light, always faulty, always in need of moderation, always fundamentally evil.

I agree about Hollywood but the amount of movies it produces is gargantuan nonetheless, so it's up to the public to make a choice and resist the propaganda. Movies about the Holocaust aren't bad by default, too.

[plamenski]

Submission and balance - yeah, easier said than accomplished in a mass scale (but i guess powercontrol solves that)
Nothing is bad by default - yeah, only one day you wake up and
there's credit crunch, culture crunch, humanity crunch, sex crunch, crunchy crunch, запушена мивка, спукана канализация
It's all about not forgetting that we come from animals and no mobile phone can make us look less like primates.

Human sanity is like food - the more natural and closer to nature, the better.
Transhumans belong in the sick minds of mtv producers

[AlphaDesigner]

Submission and balance - yeah, easier said than accomplished in a mass scale (but i guess powercontrol solves that)

Indeed. Nothing solves that irrevocably. Everything is easier to say. Like "I am going to be a better person" or "I am going to get this done!". Some people may end up doing the opposite to what they say, even unintentionally but that's the point - nobody could be completely certain what is right on a global scale. In order to have an expansion, you have to have a crunch, otherwise you lose the notion of both. Humans are designed this way - that's why it hurts when you give birth, that's why everything in our life is defined by a crisis - the first gulp of air delivers the first amount of stress and from then on you grow through pain and struggle, not trough false sense of security and bliss. You grow up and see your boobs enlarging - it's a crisis. You realize your penis is leaking - it's a crisis. You realize you can't have instant gratification - it's a crisis. Your grandparents die - it's a crisis. You fall in love - it's a crisis. Everything even remotely worthy and defining in our lives is ONE BIG FUСKING CRISIS.

We are so much more than primates. We are able to process information in a way no other creature in nature can. We are able to store it, to reuse it, to manipulate it, to correct and expand it, to build upon it and to make our lives easier and make all those crises MEANINGFUL. Human sanity is like food indeed but it's not about being close to nature at any cost, the only thing required to keep your sanity is honesty and humility - to yourself and to people around you. Honestly will keep your conscience on guard and humility will help you spot the mistakes. It's that simple.

I don't even know what you mean with "transhuman". And MTV is dead. YouTube killed it.

[boby]

i wont call falling in love or growing up a crisis
people generally enjoy it
its a change you cant control - but its not a crisis
a crisis is when you have to take decisions you dont like
like getting a divorce because youve been cheated or giving up because youre old
closing your shop or loosing your house because of the economy

[plamenski]

In order to have an expansion, you have to have a crunch, otherwise you lose the notion of both.

This where the fundamental difference lies and this what modern economist preach
in order to justify their inability to model the system empirically.

We do not need expansion.
We need sustainability in order to evolve (not expand) slow and gradually. Like all species in nature.

Like boby said, the natural occurrences you listed are NOT crisis, they are facts of life and part of evolution.
You are aware that you will die, you are aware that birth will be painful, you are aware that falling in love will hurt you later.
Crisis happen unexpectedly.

Economic crisis is the result of rapid unnatural expansion and unrealistic expectations triggered by fallacious economic theories.
It is a result of spiritual evolution being overtaken by the material expansion.
Every system needs time to digest the NEW material, in order for it to become a part of it and be in synchrony with the spiritual.

That is the message that Silverbird tries to convey in these videos
Our minds move faster than our bodies do.
.

[AlphaDesigner]

i wont call falling in love or growing up a crisis
people generally enjoy it

Every situation which turns your life upside down is a crisis, not just the unpleasant ones.

This where the fundamental difference lies and this what modern economist preach
in order to justify their inability to model the system empirically.

Did you think I was quoting economists? I don't give a shit about them, Plam! I was merely expressing my long held belief that good and evil are always present and that the balance between them is a constant fight, not an economy class ride in a jumbo jet when good beats evil with small bites dipped in caviar.

We need sustainability in order to evolve (not expand) slow and gradually. Like all species in nature.

Nature, in case you don't know, is one of the most violent "environments". But first and foremost, let's correct one sparkling misunderstanding once and for all - the real meaning of the word evolution. Just like the word "theory", it has been so twisted by the urbanized mind (who is detached from nature exactly in the way you suggested) that it brings tears to my eyes every time I hear it. Evolution has nothing to do with improvement.

List of common misconceptions

This is one of the most useful Wikipedia articles of all times. I keep a link to it under my pillow.

Evolution is not a progression from inferior to superior organisms, and it also does not necessarily require an increase in complexity (see evolution of complexity). A population can evolve to become simpler with less genetic information or have a smaller genome, but devolution is a misnomer.

Now, if we look at what you may call "natural flow of things", let me remind you that the illusion of harmony in nature comes from the relatively short human lifespan. As a result we perceive nature almost as a constant, which is absolutely wrong. Life evolved and expanded/contracted thanks to several mass extinctions - I think I posted a lot about that somewhere but I am lazy to search. There were extinctions that eradicated almost 90% of the bio mass of the planet. Thanks to an extinction and changes in atmosphere, mammals were able to find a broader niche and develop as dominant species. If life followed you crisis-free approach, today we would all have tentacles and call ourselves ammonites. Thankfully, this is not the case.



Nature is violent. Nature still produces the biggest explosions, earthquakes, tsunamis and hurricanes. The atom bombs we have are like second hand Chinese fireworks compared to Earth's arsenal. There is no mercy in nature, nor economy of any kind. There is no capitalism or communism either - it just doesn't give a f--- You won't find compassion in nature. The Sun won't warm you up in winter no matter how hard you pray. The Moon won't correct its orbit just because you'd like to sleep a bit better. You are alone and you adapt. And when nature coughs, you die. Simple.

What you are dreaming of - the gradual, fluent, almost elusive progress is actually counter-natural and is what it got us in trouble in the first place. That's where the false cult of happiness in American culture stems from - the notion that everything is good, that evil is abnormal, an anomaly. That a simple prayer can solve everything. That traditions can fill the gap in the human soul. That crisis is an unacceptable state of mind or the body. Once caught in this illusion, you find yourself in a whirlpool, demanding more and more, constantly searching for reasons for instant gratification, spiritually or materially. Thus, you have Wallstreet, Hollywood, McDonalds, Barbie, Disney, Jesus the Almighty, all that shit. And as time passes by, your happiness bubble grows and grows until simple physics makes it burst in pieces. There you run back disappointed and blame Lady Gaga for everything.

[plamenski]

Wow, what would you call this new religion - Aggressivism?

In your essay you throw out of the window, centuries old concepts like Christianity, Buddhism, etc
I somehow find it arrogant to strike out centuries old human wisdom
generated by much larger life experience than yours.

Who do you think you are?

The evolution I was talking about it's not about becoming superior in physical terms, just on the contrary
it is in fact exactly in line with the wikipedia's definition.
It's evolution that allows humans to adopt and adapt to the new materials
that do not make them superior but only help them in the physical survival in order to achieve a spiritual superiority.

We've reached all borders of this planet, we are reaching towards its capacity to sustain the horizontal growth.
There is no new frontier to be found, the cosmos is even more hostile environment.
All previous leaps in human evolution you talk about were possible because there was something new out there.
If humans are to evolve further, spiritually is the only way upwards or otherwise we will also become extinct.
And this is perhaps where we are heading as the evil (material) forces are currently prevailing over the good (spiritual) forces.

It is the Western philosophy which preaches that materialism can improve the quality of your life and make you happier and superior
the one that really falls against the principles of evolution.

[AlphaDesigner]

Wow, what would you call this new religion - Aggressivism?

In your essay you throw out of the window, centuries old concepts like Christianity, Buddhism, etc.

Whaaaat?

What I wrote Plam was almost 100% Buddhism. Actually, any Eastern religion would fit perfectly in my explanation. The rest was just science.

Maybe you should get acquainted with Buddhism, Hinduism, Shintoism, and every other non-monotheistic religion ever invented on this planet in more detail because obviously you don't have a clue. Just don't think they have anything to do with the sugary concept of goodness that Christians like to eat every Sunday.

We've reached all borders of this planet, we are reaching towards its capacity to sustain the horizontal growth.

This is hard to prove but I agree with you we should be cautious. If we haven't reached it today, we will reach it tomorrow. Better start preparing in advance.

It is the Western philosophy which preaches that materialism can improve the quality of your life and make you happier and superior
the one that really falls against the principles of evolution.

I said roughly the same thing using different words. Although if I have to be picky, I'd add that evolution has no concept.

[plamenski]

All right then, before this gets all muddled up with airy concepts.

Answer this simple question. Quote

One UK newcomer to the list is hedge fund manager Alan Howard – of Brevan Howard – with a net worth of $1.8bn, while David and Simon Reuben ($7.5bn), Sir Richard Branson ($4bn), and Joe Lewis ($3bn) all saw their fortunes increase in the last 12 months.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/7416 ... -list.html

The rich are getting richer out of this "crisis" BUT we are supposed to accept it as a natural occurrence like giving birth.
Does that mean that whoever is not getting rich by this "crisis" is a fool and not equipped well enough to survive?

Because, in my book, this is called slavish mentality or in modern terms they call it Stockholm syndrome.

Stockholm syndrome is a term used to describe a paradoxical psychological phenomenon wherein hostages express adulation and have positive feelings towards their captors that appear irrational in light of the danger or risk endured by the victims.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

What I wrote Plam was almost 100% Buddhism.

I'm afraid you'll have to expand on this.

[AlphaDesigner]

The rich are getting richer out of this "crisis" BUT we are supposed to accept it as a natural occurrence like giving birth.
Does that mean that whoever is not getting rich by this "crisis" is a fool and not equipped well enough to survive?

I never suggested such simplistic stance. I was merely suggesting that a person should be able to accept misfortune as a fact of life, pretty much like our saying всяко зло за добро. You won't see me defending speculators and I never did. My only dream is that people won't be that susceptible to false myths in future but unfortunately I am a pessimist about it. There is too much grey mass in humanity. There are too many people who don't enjoy thinking and they come from every walks in life. In a weird way however, my pessimism never stops me from dreaming. Thus I dream of the day when people won't take things for granted, when they won't go to church to be served spiritual fast food, when the fashion industry won't dictate what's relevant to wear, where rituals won't be emptied by ages of repetition, when people won't hate each other because they are different, when some Christians would be more tolerant and humble, when gays won't parade their sexuality as if it defines all of their personality, when parents will really take care of their children, when Israel will stop building villages in occupied Palestinian territory, when Islamic fundamentalist won't blow buildings to pay for a seat in heaven... should I go on?

And to back my dreams, I am actually sticking to what I preach with all my energy. Is there something else I am expected to do?

I'm afraid you'll have to expand on this.

I will, gladly. But the subject is so broad and the misconceptions are so severe that it would take me a lot of time to write it. The shortest way to shed some light is probably to mention that in monotheism good and evil are separated by a wall while in all other religions they are more or less aspects of the same deity. In those religions, the intention is what make a difference. It's really hard to understand for the Western mind. Perhaps I should call Jazz for some help. But seriously, I never intended to preach "agressivism" or to glorify violence at the expense of goodness.

Boby has a very good essay about good vs evil. I am notoriously bad at searching but I keep a copy of it in my library, so here it is:

good vs evil...
is that even possible?
when did good versus-ed anything?
it’s evil that’s versus
that’s why its evil
it fights, punches, stabs and kills
what would good do?
sing a song?
to bore evil to death?

good is good
because it’s nice and loving
and turns the other cheek
and gives it’s shirt
and gives a f---

evil doesn’t give a f---
it doesn’t even give a cheek
that’s why its evil
it gives a punch in the crotch

so... good vs evil?
that’s like mazo vs sado

is there a point in this?
evil will always be on top
cuz good does what you want it to do
so how could good win?
it’s evil who is destined to win
i mean... one gives the other cheek and the other gives a punch?
come on!
noone is that tough
and good is not tough at all
it’s soft
and mushy

hey maybe that’s the whole point?
evil beats the shit out of good
good dies with a smile
evil dies of rage it couldn’t wipe that smile out...
wait...evil doesn’t die
evil never dies
there’s always some part left thats still alive
to come for revenge in part two...

soo... good dies with a smile...
evil gets depressed because it expected at least a whine
then in its depression it becomes mushy...soft...weak...and finally
good

but wait - good is already dead!
...naaah - it’s still breathing...smiling...wait - it’s grinning!
that’s not good!
that’s evil!

Just don't take it literary. Immerse yourself in the vastness of the metaphors.

[boby]

the illusion of harmony in nature comes from the relatively short human lifespan. As a result we perceive nature almost as a constant
...
What you are dreaming of - the gradual, fluent, almost elusive progress is actually counter-natural

you contradict yourself alpha
clearly nature evolves slowly enough for us not to notice
so clearly what a natural evolution is is slower than
the up and down we had in the last 5 years
much much slower